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Post by progenito on Sept 10, 2018 13:35:05 GMT -5
I was wondering if there was some kind of reference here for alternatives to the Aerogrow products used in the gardens.
This forum states that it is unofficial and not supported by Aerogrow so I assume discussion of this should not be a problem.
The Aerogarden line is a well-designed and convenient line of machines, but for all of the features and capabilities, if you don't have Aerogarden's proprietary plugs ("growth sponges"), nutrient solution or CFL lighting, any unit is only worth about as much as a paperweight.
I'll start with the nutrient solution as an example. It contains micronutrients and a very effective pH buffer so that you don't have to mess around with pH adjustments.
Has anybody personally tried to use a different nutrient solution and balanced the pH themselves? I'm going to try the standard General Hydroponics stuff. And yes I'm aware that Monsanto owns them and Aerogarden, but it's more of a proof of concept.
For the plugs, has anyone tried rockwool cubes for example? They would probably fit in the incredibly narrow seed pod holders.
I've had success with 3D printing caps and even some seed pod holders. I'm not sure how durable they're going to be long term, and how much of a variety of growth media I can use in them.
As for the lighting, this is more of an issue with older units that still use the proprietary CFL bulbs instead of the newer LED panels. I never thought this would be an issue for new users until I picked up an old Aerogarden second hand that was using CFLs.
There are third party adapters available to allow you to use your own bulbs, and a lot of people seem to be happy with them, but they're a bit tricky to find. Some handier folks have outright just removed the proprietary sockets and spliced the electrical wires to work with regular sockets.
I guess the only thing left would be pumps, but they're pretty much the core of the unit and I can't see how they could be replaced as a cheaper alternative to just getting a whole other unit, or ordering the proprietary ones from Aerogrow.
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Shawn
Administrator
Posts: 16,266
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Post by Shawn on Sept 10, 2018 13:51:22 GMT -5
I can only answer a few of your questions as I still use AG Nutes. Hopefully will try GH soon.
Sponges: I no longer use AG ones. I buy Park Seed 60-Cell Bio Sponges (currently out of stock but should be in stock soon). You get 120 for around $17. Cages: I reuse 90% of my cages. Of course if you grow a project that has thick trunks like a Pepper plant then I throw those away.
Pumps: You can get these from Amazon and they are $12.95 on Prime. THere are two different pumps listed. One for older machines and one for the newer ones.
I hope that helps.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2018 14:05:52 GMT -5
I find rockwool way too soggy for some seeds in the AG. The sponges clear some of the water, but the rockwool just holds it all.
Some do use it as a sub, but it depends on the seed you are using.
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MaryL
AGA Farmer
Posts: 3,532
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Post by MaryL on Sept 10, 2018 18:32:51 GMT -5
SPONGES: I have Rockwool cubes but have only used them outside in a hydroponic bucket. I read you’re not supposed to squeeze wet Rockwool because it crushes the little chambers that both hold the water and allow the roots to grow through them. So I’ve not tried to cut the cubes either. Several people here swear by the Park sponges. Both in terms of price and performance. They definitely cost less than AG sponges. I’d give those a try. CAGES: The cages, yeah, unless you have luck getting close to a workable 3-D print, we’re kind of stuck with the AG cages. But I buy the big bag when they’re on sale, and like Shawn I reuse them when I can. I also stick them in the dishwasher for convenience (upper rack for plastics). Also, I’ve got a bunch of old AG seed kits that I swipe cages and sponges from, and just kill the AG seed that comes up with whatever I’m planting. NUTES: I’m trying the GH series, and for herbs and greens I have the Ionic Grow that Mike recommended. The latter is buffered, I believe. I don’t know about the first. But I’m not gonna fiddle with PH. Just not willing to go that extra step . (Lazy, here ). And I raid the old AG seed kits for their nutes, too. I have so many kits because I bought so many machines - even the used machines often came with a kit. Edited to add: LIGHTS: For the CFL I bought a set of the converters a long time ago when they were more plentiful, before the LED came out. But as I understand it, the best bulb for the plants is no longer available. Hope I’m wrong. You’re welcome to my converters if I can find them. PM me if you’d like them.
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Happy
AGA Bounty
Posts: 506
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Post by Happy on Sept 10, 2018 18:41:28 GMT -5
progenito, I've found that supplies are the least of my cost worries. The bigger expense (for me, at least) is the need to keep on buying more and more machines! MaryL , how do you like Ionic Grow for your greens? Does it seem better than the AG nutes?
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MaryL
AGA Farmer
Posts: 3,532
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Post by MaryL on Sept 10, 2018 18:46:47 GMT -5
MaryL , how do you like Ionic Grow for your greens? Does it seem better than the AG nutes? Honestly I haven’t used it enough to know. I used it when I first bought it on Mike’s recommendation, then forgot I had it until it came up a week or two ago. I’ve since brought it back out. I can say this, though: it sure smells a whole lot better than the new AG formula.
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MaryL
AGA Farmer
Posts: 3,532
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Post by MaryL on Sept 10, 2018 18:51:45 GMT -5
progenito , The bigger expense (for me, at least) is the need to keep on buying more and more machines! Right?! I shudder to think of all the dough I’ve dropped over the years on so many machines, including all the ones I’ve chucked into the spare closet, nearly floor to ceiling!
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nick
AGA Bounty
Posts: 555
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Post by nick on Sept 10, 2018 20:11:31 GMT -5
As someone who has recently spent a fair bit of cash on AeroGarden products I've given a lot of thought to this in the last couple of weeks. I wasn't planning to talk about this until it was a bit further along, but since it came up I guess I'll go ahead and share.
I've arrived at the idea of designing an open-source garden system that would be compatible with the AeroGarden pods. I've done a fair bit of modeling for 3D printing in the last year and there's nothing about an AeroGarden style garden that would be too terrible difficult to design.
In fact I've already started on a version 1.0 model that'd be just a single pod garden. It's a very simple design that's only intended to be a proof-of-concept. It would use an airstone system and be similar to a Sprout, but smaller. The tank and deck models are done. Next I'd need to design the lighting portion. I have some ideas for how to use programmable LEDs and an Arduino microcontroller to facilitate the electronic portion of that. The Arduino could also manage the timer functions.
I think that if I do it correctly, the project could easily scale up to more complex gardens.
Having said that, there are some significant hurdles I see.
1. The biggest hurdle is that common 3D prints are not food safe. This isn't a big deal if you're just printing something like a lid or a cover, but anything that comes in contact with the water or plants would give me pause. The most common material for 3D printing is PLA. On it's own, raw PLA is actually perfectly safe. However, once dyes have been added it becomes harder to say. Worse, the 3D printers themselves introduce some toxic bits via their extruders and print heads. If you buy food-safe filament and use the right parts on your 3D printer it can be done though. I'm fortunate to have access to a lab where I can likely move past this, but I'd be worried about other people printing out the gardens and not caring. I do not want to be indirectly responsible for bad things leeching into people's food.
2. Getting the code right for the Arduino isn't complex, but it'll need to be just right to be reliable. That'll take some work. If the project goes well I'd want to scale this bit up to include a full web interface for control for the phone. (I suspect it could be better than the AeroGarden app. 😉) This would introduce more electronics (likely a Raspberry Pi Zero W) and more complexity, which means more work.
3. Most 3D printers that people have at home aren't large enough to print designs comparable to models like the Harvest, Bounty, and Farm.
4. As it scales up the design would have to move past a basic airstone/bubbler concept and get into the full-on pump-based systems such as the Bounty and the Farm. Pumps would be a further level of complexity.
Again, this is just me thinking out loud. I'm barely down the road of the concept version of the smallest possible design. Still, I think it could be interesting and potentially cheaper if it's done well.
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Post by progenito on Sept 10, 2018 21:04:12 GMT -5
I can only answer a few of your questions as I still use AG Nutes. Hopefully will try GH soon.
Sponges: I no longer use AG ones. I buy Park Seed 60-Cell Bio Sponges (currently out of stock but should be in stock soon). You get 120 for around $17. Cages: I reuse 90% of my cages. Of course if you grow a project that has thick trunks like a Pepper plant then I throw those away.
Pumps: You can get these from Amazon and they are $12.95 on Prime. THere are two different pumps listed. One for older machines and one for the newer ones.
I hope that helps.
Yes, thank you very much!
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Post by progenito on Sept 10, 2018 21:15:40 GMT -5
As someone who has recently spent a fair bit of cash on AeroGarden products I've given a lot of thought to this in the last couple of weeks. I wasn't planning to talk about this until it was a bit further along, but since it came up I guess I'll go ahead and share. I've arrived at the idea of designing an open-source garden system that would be compatible with the AeroGarden pods. I've done a fair bit of modeling for 3D printing in the last year and there's nothing about an AeroGarden style garden that would be too terrible difficult to design. In fact I've already started on a version 1.0 model that'd be just a single pod garden. It's a very simple design that's only intended to be a proof-of-concept. It would use an airstone system and be similar to a Sprout, but smaller. The tank and deck models are done. Next I'd need to design the lighting portion. I have some ideas for how to use programmable LEDs and an Arduino microcontroller to facilitate the electronic portion of that. The Arduino could also manage the timer functions. I think that if I do it correctly, the project could easily scale up to more complex gardens. Having said that, there are some significant hurdles I see. 1. The biggest hurdle is that common 3D prints are not food safe. This isn't a big deal if you're just printing something like a lid or a cover, but anything that comes in contact with the water or plants would give me pause. The most common material for 3D printing is PLA. On it's own, raw PLA is actually perfectly safe. However, once dyes have been added it becomes harder to say. Worse, the 3D printers themselves introduce some toxic bits via their extruders and print heads. If you buy food-safe filament and use the right parts on your 3D printer it can be done though. I'm fortunate to have access to a lab where I can likely move past this, but I'd be worried about other people printing out the gardens and not caring. I do not want to be indirectly responsible for bad things leeching into people's food. 2. Getting the code right for the Arduino isn't complex, but it'll need to be just right to be reliable. That'll take some work. If the project goes well I'd want to scale this bit up to include a full web interface for control for the phone. (I suspect it could be better than the AeroGarden app. 😉) This would introduce more electronics (likely a Raspberry Pi Zero W) and more complexity, which means more work. 3. Most 3D printers that people have at home aren't large enough to print designs comparable to models like the Harvest, Bounty, and Farm. 4. As it scales up the design would have to move past a basic airstone/bubbler concept and get into the full-on pump-based systems such as the Bounty and the Farm. Pumps would be a further level of complexity. Again, this is just me thinking out loud. I'm barely down the road of the concept version of the smallest possible design. Still, I think it could be interesting and potentially cheaper if it's done well. This is definitely a great project to be pursuing. My only suggestion would be to not fear simplicity. Even if it has no timer unit, it's like 5 bucks to get a simple light timer yourself. Most small commercial hydroponics kits don't even give you a light source. Something as simple in principle as a single pod capacity, non circulating, for herbs and leafy greens, with an adjustable stand for a household light bulb would be a great proof of concept. Maybe throw in a built in air stone in lieu of circulation to keep the roots happy. I'm going to continue studying and trying out other hydroponics methods and equipment to give me a better idea of where to go next.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2018 23:25:47 GMT -5
There are tons of home made possibilities. Do a search on you tube for the Kratky method.
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nick
AGA Bounty
Posts: 555
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Post by nick on Sept 11, 2018 5:28:05 GMT -5
There are tons of home made possibilities. Do a search on you tube for the Kratky method. Yes. Kratky is very interesting to me. I actually read the papers he published from his initial studies earlier this year and almost went fully DIY. There’s some really interesting stuff there! I’ve looked at every type of hydro system and strongly considered the DIY route since this was going to be a new hobby and building systems appeals to me. However, at the end of the day the AeroGarden won because of aesthetics and simplicity. I’ve got limited options for where to keep a hydro system indoors and I’m not going to make my wife suffer through me setting up a bunch of PVC or hacked up storage containers in the dining room. I also know from building other kinds of systems that it’s very easy to create technical/support debt for yourself where you’re spending more time supporting the systems than getting what you want out of them. The simplicity of the AeroGarden lessens that a bit. Most days I’d rather troubleshoot my plants than why the code for my micro controller isn’t working right. But obviously there’s a part of me that can’t help but tinker. I’ll keep pushing that forward, but as a side project. For producing real food I’m sticking with the AeroGardens.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2018 8:06:07 GMT -5
One of the AG's big attractions is the decor. One doesn't have a bunch of buckets and lights hanging in rooms other than grow rooms, and a machine can look decorative in a kitchen as well as a living room and a dining room etc.
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Happy
AGA Bounty
Posts: 506
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Post by Happy on Sept 11, 2018 11:42:38 GMT -5
One of the AG's big attractions is the decor. One doesn't have a bunch of buckets and lights hanging in rooms other than grow rooms, and a machine can look decorative in a kitchen as well as a living room and a dining room etc.
I agree! I also agree with Nick about the simplicity. It’s a lot more fun (to me) to tinker with the plants than with the hardware.
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Happy
AGA Bounty
Posts: 506
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Post by Happy on Sept 11, 2018 12:32:22 GMT -5
Also, I've been playing with Kratky in Mason Jars. It's quite easy, but I might terminate them all. The reason is that I wonder what the water (and therefore my apartment) smells like with so little aeration.
(I've also played with microgreens, which I love. But I sometimes get fruitflies from them. In the future, I might look into better ventilation so I can grow microgreens again.)
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Shawn
Administrator
Posts: 16,266
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Post by Shawn on Sept 11, 2018 12:47:15 GMT -5
Mason jars are so iffy. The light gets to the water and roots and pods and can get algae so easy. I have seen people get black tape and tape the whole jar up to stop light from getting in.
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Happy
AGA Bounty
Posts: 506
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Post by Happy on Sept 11, 2018 12:51:26 GMT -5
Yes, I wrapped mine in tin foil. So much for aesthetics!
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Happy
AGA Bounty
Posts: 506
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Post by Happy on Sept 12, 2018 11:19:40 GMT -5
I've used Park Seed sponges in the past and liked them. But they're out of stock until December.
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Post by Don on Sept 15, 2018 23:25:47 GMT -5
I used Masterblend powder for the hydroponic out side in 5gal. buckets and it worked ok. But trying to mix up a gal. wasn't easy, a little goes a long way easy to over feed. Plus checking the ph. I stick to the Aerogarden nutrients for the tomatoes. They tasted a little strong at first. I ended up using 6 ml. of nuts. and 2 ml. Mucha Stash per gal. The tomatoes tasted great and the plants grew big and healthy. When I started doing it, the plants were to big to move and drain, so I just topped off the tank every two days and keeper the gal. container under a towel to keep it from growing algae. Nice big tasty cherry tomatoes.😀
I think I got the initial idea from Shawn. I think I started out with 4 mil. of nuts. and 1 mil. of Mucha. Not really sure. Aerogarden just had a big sale and I bought a 1 liter of their fertilizer for $20 and some other stuff on sale and free shipping! 😀
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Post by drbanks on Sept 17, 2018 8:13:20 GMT -5
Sorry for being so late with this. I'd probably use some natural (no dye) nylon, which is notoriously difficult to get the first layer to stick (think garolite), but should probably be food safe. Next, I'd be thinking about a CR-10 or a G-Max, or if I really had money to throw around, the tall Raise3D. I'd been thinking (a lot) about modelling and printing replacement grow decks for my Farm (that'd take standard 2" net pots), and yes, size is an issue, but ultimately decided that grow decks don't have to be water tight, so I could do some combination of heat gun/ca glue/bolting together of the individual parts. Mostly, it's starting to feel like an excuse to get a 500x500 CR-10, although I kind of dropped the idea when I realized that creating something that would drip to the center of the net pot yet still allow easy removal wasn't quite as easy as I thought. I've also experimented with extender arms for the Ultra/Extra/Bounty series to give me a greater hood height. Unfortunately, it also requires chasing down a C8 extension cord, which can be found, but with spotty availability. Mostly, for big grows, I'd just go the deep water culture route, or maybe a GH drip or rainforest setup. (I actually have all of the above, but decommissioned them when I had a run-in with the landlord). Maybe not as satisfying as printing your own, but fairly inexpensive. The real pain in the butt with the larger systems is changing 13 gallons of water/nutes every couple of weeks. Haven't actually thought of doing anything with an Arduino. Have a couple of nanos at home, but haven't really taken them out of the box. Raspberry Pis are more my speed, even though they're a bit more (ok, compared to a nano, a LOT more) expensive at $35 each. My thoughts in that regard was to have a Raspi setup with some peristaltic pumps to auto-dose the nutes, but like so much that I haven't done this year, I just haven't got around to it. As someone who has recently spent a fair bit of cash on AeroGarden products I've given a lot of thought to this in the last couple of weeks. I wasn't planning to talk about this until it was a bit further along, but since it came up I guess I'll go ahead and share. I've arrived at the idea of designing an open-source garden system that would be compatible with the AeroGarden pods. I've done a fair bit of modeling for 3D printing in the last year and there's nothing about an AeroGarden style garden that would be too terrible difficult to design. In fact I've already started on a version 1.0 model that'd be just a single pod garden. It's a very simple design that's only intended to be a proof-of-concept. It would use an airstone system and be similar to a Sprout, but smaller. The tank and deck models are done. Next I'd need to design the lighting portion. I have some ideas for how to use programmable LEDs and an Arduino microcontroller to facilitate the electronic portion of that. The Arduino could also manage the timer functions. I think that if I do it correctly, the project could easily scale up to more complex gardens. Having said that, there are some significant hurdles I see. 1. The biggest hurdle is that common 3D prints are not food safe. This isn't a big deal if you're just printing something like a lid or a cover, but anything that comes in contact with the water or plants would give me pause. The most common material for 3D printing is PLA. On it's own, raw PLA is actually perfectly safe. However, once dyes have been added it becomes harder to say. Worse, the 3D printers themselves introduce some toxic bits via their extruders and print heads. If you buy food-safe filament and use the right parts on your 3D printer it can be done though. I'm fortunate to have access to a lab where I can likely move past this, but I'd be worried about other people printing out the gardens and not caring. I do not want to be indirectly responsible for bad things leeching into people's food. 2. Getting the code right for the Arduino isn't complex, but it'll need to be just right to be reliable. That'll take some work. If the project goes well I'd want to scale this bit up to include a full web interface for control for the phone. (I suspect it could be better than the AeroGarden app. 😉) This would introduce more electronics (likely a Raspberry Pi Zero W) and more complexity, which means more work. 3. Most 3D printers that people have at home aren't large enough to print designs comparable to models like the Harvest, Bounty, and Farm. 4. As it scales up the design would have to move past a basic airstone/bubbler concept and get into the full-on pump-based systems such as the Bounty and the Farm. Pumps would be a further level of complexity. Again, this is just me thinking out loud. I'm barely down the road of the concept version of the smallest possible design. Still, I think it could be interesting and potentially cheaper if it's done well.
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