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Post by clumsythumbs on Jan 4, 2021 17:23:23 GMT -5
So, as some of you may have seen, I have been mulling over venturing into some Kratky set-ups. Well, after lots of challenges, I finally got some up and running. By challenges I mean ...trying to research on the method generally and on grow lights and trying to figure out a set-up I can achieve. These kinds of things trigger my obsessive tendencies. My siblings also told me to "wait and see" what they send me for xmas. My sister did buy me a growlight. And my brother sent me the hole saw kit I asked for so I can make holes in the container. ...trying to use the hole saw has been a challenge. My drill was useless, so borrowed by soon-to-father in laws. This eventually worked, but is harrowing. Clearly I am doing something wrong, because by the time the hole is carved, the saw and whole bit is about to fly off. I am not a very handy/tool-knowledgeable person, mostly because I have never needed to know. So, yes, I did look up on YouTube if I was doing something wrong. Despite following multiple instructions, mine still seems off. 99.99% chance it is user error. But...did get my 3 containers drilled. SO YAY! ...fortuitously (or not) I am low on AG nutes (and the last bit I had I spilled all over). And AG nutes are sold out on Amazon. And from reading here, I know many do not use the AG nutes for non AG stuff. This felt like a perfect reason to take a trip to the hydroponic store that is literally 1/2mile down the road. The guy there is...nice, but not overly helpful. Of course you know his main expertise is in the "shall not be named" greenery. He recommended the GH flora series many are fond of here, so bought those (as well as some net cup and hydroton clay pebbles). (Side note: I also bought some off-brand AG knockoff on Amazon that I will be using on my AGs. It is about $16 for a quart). So, yes after lots of mulling about was finally ready to go this weekend. So currently I have 3 going. - 2 Patio Choice Yellow Hybrid Tomatoes in 5-gal containers. - 1 Fairy Tale eggplant in an older protein powder container. It is a little less than a gallon, so not sure how quickly it will drink up water, but wanted to use what I had. The tomatoes are under the grow light I got for xmas. The current set-up will need to be amended. The lights are currently hanging from the top of a chrome shelf unit. BUT the light say to have minimum 30cm (=11.8") between the light and the plant...and the ligh t hangs 17" from the top of the unit, leaving only about 10" between it and the plants. So...I will likely get some sort of hook to drill into the rafters. But for now I think this is fine (for a few days?). The fairytale eggplant is sharing the lights with other AGs at the moment.  2021-01-04_02-30-45 by Aaron Blasyak, on Flickr  2021-01-04_02-31-11 by Aaron Blasyak, on Flickr  2021-01-04_04-03-57 by Aaron Blasyak, on Flickr I am a little iffy on the nutrients. I followed the guidelines (although the bottle versus what they have on their site vary), but was a bit confused by which stage I should do for Kratky. I am wondering what feeding strategies others use? Excited to foray into some new indoor gardening adventures! |
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Sher
AGA Farmer
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Post by Sher on Jan 4, 2021 17:45:43 GMT -5
clumsythumbs, I used AG nutes for Kratky. Never tried the Flora series.
Recently I started trying Masterblend because I am already using it in the lettuce tower. But I think I like AG better.
The most important rule in refilling your Kratky nutes is to always leave 2-1/2 - 3 inches of air space below the net pot -- per Dr Kratky himself. Otherwise your plant will drown.
And most people say that you don't have to change the nutrients ever. But in my experience, in small containers, the nutes do become unbalanced as the plant uses more of some and less of others. So I change mine out every 2-3 weeks.
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Post by clumsythumbs on Jan 4, 2021 18:06:36 GMT -5
clumsythumbs , I used AG nutes for Kratky. Never tried the Flora series.
Recently I started trying Masterblend because I am already using it in the lettuce tower. But I think I like AG better.
The most important rule in refilling your Kratky nutes is to always leave 2-1/2 - 3 inches of air space below the net pot -- per Dr Kratky himself. Otherwise your plant will drown.
And most people say that you don't have to change the nutrients ever. But in my experience, in small containers, the nutes do become unbalanced as the plant uses more of some and less of others. So I change mine out every 2-3 weeks.
That is good to know you have been successful with AG nutes. I know Masterblend comes up a lot when you google Kratky (especially for lettuce which is the example/ideal that Dr. Kratky seems to use in all his papers). I did leave space for air so *fingers crossed* it all gets going well. I am going to have to read through others' threads more and see what I can glean. I figure I can measure, when necessary, to make sure things are not off and the go from there. I know there is a paper from Kratky that suggests using a 25 gal trash can to do a cucumber without adding water! I am NOT doing that   lol. |
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Post by ERR0R1755 on Jan 4, 2021 19:57:47 GMT -5
The common suggestion I see for AG nutes in Kratky is 5ml per gallon, but feel free to play around with that  |
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Post by clumsythumbs on Jan 4, 2021 22:31:46 GMT -5
The common suggestion I see for AG nutes in Kratky is 5ml per gallon, but feel free to play around with that  How much would you suggest for the GH Flora series? Given they are all transplants, not seedlings, I followed the amounts for the vegetative stage which is about also about 5ml/gal (of each). This seemed the conservative amount. |
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Post by ERR0R1755 on Jan 4, 2021 22:42:36 GMT -5
How much would you suggest for the GH Flora series? Given they are all transplants, not seedlings, I followed the amounts for the vegetative stage which is about also about 5ml/gal (of each). This seemed the conservative amount. I'm not too familiar with that series (I'm too lazy to mix different things most of the time) but Khang Starr recommended the following per gallon of water: 1 Tsps. of Micro 1 Tsps. of Grow 1 Tsps. of Bloom 1 Tsps. of Cal Mag 1/2 Tsps. of Epsom Salt Here's the full video if you want to see it: |
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Post by clumsythumbs on Jan 5, 2021 11:17:02 GMT -5
Thanks, ERR0R1755 . That is the amount I did (minus the CalMag) as that seemed to be what most videos and articles I found did for Kratky. I have seen this before, I think. A lot of videos/articles use lettuce as a base, less info on other veg. I feel pretty comfortable with the nute levels. Time will tell  |
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Post by clumsythumbs on Jan 8, 2021 11:45:44 GMT -5
Mini update on these... The light I had received had some defect; the plastic blades from the fan kept getting stuck in the vent. I was afraid it was going to burn up and cause damage, so returned. Am waiting for Amazon credit and will order a new one. Sher gave me some great suggests on lights, so will be doing some "researching" on what is available for that price point on Amazon and ordering something else. Currently the tomatoes are sitting under a grow bulb I had gotten at Lowe's or Home Depot a while back as a supplement and/or seed starter. It is not powerful enough (I don't think) for long, but a few days should be fine. They also get ambient light from the 5 AGs nearby.  2021-01-08_11-41-21 by Aaron Blasyak, on Flickr  2021-01-08_11-41-00 by Aaron Blasyak, on Flickr After doing some cursory research, I may have to rethink my initial plan for these containers  I am also still generally concerned about the temp in the basement and the slowish growth of everything, so ordered some Mylar reflective roll material to make some cover/protective tent around some to hopefully keep the heat in. The heat under the deck is about 65ish, but the air in the basement is about 59 or 60 so I am hoping with some protection, I had raise it up a bit. Or at least maybe at night. We turn the heat down at night and this house is old with not great insulation....The upstairs is always unbearably hot, the down stairs is fine with heat, but as soon as we turn it down it will drop 4 or 5 degrees with an hour. The basement is always at or near the same temperature, but chillier. |
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Sher
AGA Farmer
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Post by Sher on Jan 8, 2021 12:28:56 GMT -5
Those temperatures are great for lettuce and most greens, but they are pretty cool for tomatoes. However, They generally can take nights down to 55. At 55 you will get blossom drop, and at 50, the plant tissues can be damaged.
Ideal daytime temperatures are 65 - 85. Maybe you can get close to 65 with the light during the day. Plants are good about adapting to their surroundings, so yours might thrive.
The good news is that you shouldn't have to worry about root rot at those temperatures!
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Post by clumsythumbs on Jan 8, 2021 13:03:46 GMT -5
Those temperatures are great for lettuce and most greens, but they are pretty cool for tomatoes. However, They generally can take nights down to 55. At 55 you will get blossom drop, and at 50, the plant tissues can be damaged.
Ideal daytime temperatures are 65 - 85. Maybe you can get close to 65 with the light during the day. Plants are good about adapting to their surroundings, so yours might thrive.
The good news is that you shouldn't have to worry about root rot at those temperatures!
Yes, that tracks. My lettuce(s) are doing the best (which makes sense). I get impatient and things seem to be going way more slowly. At day 40 I usually have harvested lettuce and greens a few times; the eggplant seems to be stagnant but alive and the tomatoes are healthy but very slowly growing. |
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Sher
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Post by Sher on Jan 8, 2021 13:17:00 GMT -5
That eggplant really needs more heat. Is it out of the question to move it to someplace warmer?
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Post by clumsythumbs on Jan 8, 2021 13:52:04 GMT -5
That eggplant really needs more heat. Is it out of the question to move it to someplace warmer?
There really isn't, which is why I am going to try to make mini "tents" around the area. We have no space that I could fit any grow light/lamp in the main part of the house, so basement is really the only place.  What temperature would you say the eggplant (and tomatoes) would ideally need? I had read about 70 is the minimum? I know it is a tall order, but was hoping if I tent the individual machines and the shelving units for kratky I could maybe raise to about 70. Had myself and my fiance not been working from home; I could turn the office into a grow room, but we both teach and need a dedicated space to hold classes in, so cannot give up the office. |
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Sher
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Post by Sher on Jan 8, 2021 15:35:13 GMT -5
I just checked, and apparently they can take cooler weather than I thiught -- same as tomatoes.
I read that they will consistently set fruit down to 60 degrees at night, and need a minimum of 65 in the day.
I also saw on Youtube that enclosing tomatoes and eggplant and putting Christmas light under the cover will raise the temperature enough to make a difference. That's a lot cheaper than running a heater.
My sister in North Florida keeps Christmas lights in her orange tree all winter and it keeps it from freezing.
I'n not sure what kind of lights they are.
I bet a low wattage incandescent light would work beautifully -- if you can find them.
I wonder if those lights they use to keep reptiles warm are affordable.
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Post by clumsythumbs on Jan 8, 2021 16:40:43 GMT -5
I just checked, and apparently they can take cooler weather than I thiught -- same as tomatoes.
I read that they will consistently set fruit down to 60 degrees at night, and need a minimum of 65 in the day.
I also saw on Youtube that enclosing tomatoes and eggplant and putting Christmas light under the cover will raise the temperature enough to make a difference. That's a lot cheaper than running a heater.
My sister in North Florida keeps Christmas lights in her orange tree all winter and it keeps it from freezing.
I'n not sure what kind of lights they are.
I bet a low wattage incandescent light would work beautifully -- if you can find them.
I wonder if those lights they use to keep reptiles warm are affordable.
Those are all great thoughts, Sher! Thank you! The Mylar is supposed to arrive tomorrow, so am going to set up some enclosures and see what happens over the weekend . My thought was something like the covers folks have created to block light, just lined with the Mylar to keep trap air...something like that. It is one of those fine lines when I get OCD...like it is all probably "fine" but I cannot help but tinker and obsess over everything [My sister and my mom and I call it the family curse.]
It has also been super cold here the last few days (like mid-teens) so it all contributes to my mania lol.
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Sher
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Post by Sher on Jan 8, 2021 16:48:41 GMT -5
I seriously considered building my own enclosure. Then I took the easy way out and got the tent.
I also used to be a perfectionist. But as I got older, it got harder and harder. So I was forced to learn to let some things slide.
But it still bothers me!
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Post by clumsythumbs on Jan 8, 2021 16:56:43 GMT -5
I seriously considered building my own enclosure. Then I took the easy way out and got the tent.
I also used to be a perfectionist. But as I got older, it got harder and harder. So I was forced to learn to let some things slide.
But it still bothers me!
I seem to becoming the opposite!! Well...sorta. Yes, in retrospect, I think I should have looked into a grow tent set-up. But I am hopeful I can make it all work. In my mind I thought, "I have this huge space with outlets and a long counter top...this is perfect!" the temperature never really crossed my mind haha. I think at the very least, a reflect background or 3/4 enclosure will help retain some heat/minimize heat loss. It is only a few degrees I need to get to. |
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Post by clumsythumbs on Jan 9, 2021 18:48:56 GMT -5
So my TDS meter arrived today. I know many people on here do not mess or measure; and I know it can drive one nuts. I have never really felt the need; but given I want to try out more non-AG set-ups and especially since I am exploring a new method (Kratky) and new nutrients (GH Flora series), I am trying to learn what levels of nutes...etc. I was a bit astounded by some of the varieties between machines and set-ups! My tomatoes in 5-gal Kratky both had about 6.4ph in 64 degree water with a tds of 880ppm/1.8ec [this reads low, I think per some of the charts I have seen; but they are also in the early vegetative stage so need less]. My Harvest with Bok Choy had a ph of 7.2 with a reading of 220ppm/.4EC [quite low?] My Ultra Lettuce garden had 6.8 ph, 108ppm/.22ec [also very low] Bounty Greens Garden = 6.4ph, 111ppm/.22ec My Harvest root veg experiment = 6.3ph; 198ppm/.4ec The Ultra with the mixed bag of seeds I am starting (2 tomatoes, 2 beets, 1 cuke, 1 rutabega) had a 4.6 ph  ; but a tds reading of 1289ppm/2.5ec (which seemed in line). Not sure why such a low ph? My eggplant Kratky container had a ph of 6.8 and a tds reading of 615ppm/1.2ec. As a reference, my tap water has a ph of about 7.1 and a tds reading of 220ppm/.5EC For the AG units, nutes are due on Monday. I was also curious to see the water temps, given the temp of the basement-- they varied from 61 degrees to nearly 68 degrees [Ironically the warmest garden is the lettuce]. I will likely measure again the middle or end of next week after feeding them. I am not sure if I should interpret this as they are feeding on the nutrients, depleting the water or that their slow growth may be due to theses low levels? Wondering if I should amend the water for the 3 Kratky's. I also did not add any CalMag which most resources I have read do suggest that for Kratky [ordered some yesterday]. Any thoughts? |
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Sher
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Post by Sher on Jan 9, 2021 20:07:38 GMT -5
clumsythumbs, if the plant looks healthy and well nourished I no longer worry about ph and ppm except for tomatoes (so I get flavorful tomatoes).
For detailed ppm guidance, fldave is probably your best source. |
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Post by clumsythumbs on Jan 11, 2021 14:41:39 GMT -5
clumsythumbs , if the plant looks healthy and well nourished I no longer worry about ph and ppm except for tomatoes (so I get flavorful tomatoes). For detailed ppm guidance, fldave is probably your best source. Thanks, Sher . I usually do not care much about the ph either; but since was measuring other stuff figured might as well measure that to be thorough. My mylars arrived yesterday. I have not had the time to make a real "tent" around machines, but draped a covering over the bank of machines and it has already raised the temp from 16 degrees Celsius to 22 (about 71 F). We will see if that helps any.  20210110_211556 by Aaron Blasyak, on Flickr I am also doing an R&R on all the machines when I feed them today/tomorrow. It is week 7 so more than due. That way can start "fresh" water and nute wise. Still researching how best to amend the containers, but there is not much definitive information. Time will tell I suppose. |
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Sher
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Post by Sher on Jan 11, 2021 22:21:12 GMT -5
It's great that the mylar raised the temperature that much!
With R&R's, the plants should put on a nice growth spurt.
I learned from @cornne that if a plant looks hungry, you can slip in extra food between scheduled feedings.
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lol.
; but a tds reading of 1289ppm/2.5ec (which seemed in line). Not sure why such a low ph?